Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate SNS Reeal in diretta: storia di un esproprio - Notizie, informazioni e commenti (8 lettori)

Quante SNS T1 + Lt2 Nominale Sub oggetto del furto avete in portafoglio

  • 10k

    Votes: 19 13,3%
  • 20k

    Votes: 8 5,6%
  • 30k

    Votes: 3 2,1%
  • 50k

    Votes: 37 25,9%
  • 75k

    Votes: 6 4,2%
  • 100k

    Votes: 17 11,9%
  • 150k

    Votes: 16 11,2%
  • 200k

    Votes: 12 8,4%
  • 300k

    Votes: 17 11,9%
  • 500k+

    Votes: 8 5,6%

  • Total voters
    143

nik.sala

Money Never Sleeps
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Dice anche che noi investitori ci siamo presi un rischio alto ad entrare in una banca CHE SI SAPEVA fosse vicino al default..e avevamo tutte le info del caso(Ma dove?la data di ultimatum la sapevamo?),ma siamo rimasti e ora paghiamo.
Riguardo all'espropio dei titoli,purtroppo le depositarie sono in Lux Parigi e Amsterdam,e non possono fare altro che consegnare i titoli
C'è qualcuno tra noi ch eè già stato espropriato ???
 

Camajan

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su Salvadanaio Radio 24 adesso si parla pure di SNS ... ma non hanno detto 1 mazza di interessante
 
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captain sparrow

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traduzione inglese

THE HAGUE (AFN) - For important parts of the decision by Jeroen Dijsselbloem Minister (Finance) to SNS to nationalize was no legal basis. That said lawyer Pieter van der Korst Friday on behalf of the Association (VEB) to the Council of State (SS).
According to Van der Korst has decided to expropriation under the,,'' questionable outcomes of a study into the extent of the problems in the real estate branch of SNS. He called nationalization, not proportional'' and suggested that he failed all other possibilities sufficiently investigated.
The lawyer VEB also complained about the procedure. He suggested that misled investors after the expropriation decision exactly two weeks ago too little time in which to prepare their defense. Furthermore, they have not had access to all relevant documents.
The stainless Friday hear the objections of several hundred parties have appealed against the expropriation decision. The country will advocate on behalf of the Minister's decision to defend. The VEB acts in his own words on behalf of more than 5,300 duped investors. ,, That number is growing every hour,'' said Van der Crus
 

bluto

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Dijsselbloem handle late at SNS

THE HAGUE - Jeroen Dijsselbloem Minister (Finance) had four months earlier to intervene at SNS. That said Pieter Lakeman of the Foundation Research Business Information (Sobi) Friday before the Council of State, where he performed on behalf of two misled investors.

According Lakeman, best known for his role in the downfall of DSB where he called for a bank run, had Dijsselbloem hundreds if not thousands of investors a good sling can save. "But he had evidently no appetite." His own clients bought more shares on 11 January. "Not in my opinion also," joked Lakeman.

The nationalization was not necessary according Lakeman. The government had the capital of SNS without expropriation can strengthen, he said. The reason for this is not selected "will be of a political nature".

Legal basis

For important parts of the decision of Dijsselbloem to SNS to nationalize was no legal basis. That said lawyer Pieter van der Korst Friday on behalf of the Association (VEB) to the Council of State.

According to Van der Korst has decided to expropriation under the "contestable outcomes" of an investigation into the extent of the problems in the real estate branch of SNS. He called nationalization "not proportional" and suggested that he failed all other possibilities sufficiently investigated.

The lawyer VEB also complained about the procedure. He suggested that misled investors after the expropriation decision, exactly two weeks ago, far too little time in which to prepare their defense. Furthermore, they have not had access to all relevant documents. The Council of State hears Friday the objections of several hundred parties have appealed against the expropriation decision. The country will advocate on behalf of the Minister's decision to defend. The VEB acts in his own words on behalf of more than 5,300 duped investors. "That number is growing every hour," said Van der Korst.

No need

Dijsselbloem has been overstepped gone through the subordinated bondholders of SNS to expropriate. Lawyer argued that 't Hart Friday behalf Hoorneman Bankers Court in the State Council.

According to 't Hart was the expropriation of bondholders not necessary to the stability of the financial system. As an expropriation legally may not extend beyond what is necessary, according to him, the Minister may decide not. The argument Dijsselbloem that the holders of subordinated bonds conscious risk taken, according to 't Hart irrelevant. "There was no need for the bondholders to expropriate. It was most politically desirable, not more than that. "

The counsel also placed questioned the role of De Nederlandsche Bank (DNB). Who gave SNS on 23 December permission to repay on participation certificates worth 116 million euros. Incomprehensible, given the major concerns that DNB one month later revealed to have the capital position of SNS and also led to the nationalization, says' t Hart.
Lakeman: Dijsselbloem greep te laat in bij SNS - Economie - Reformatorisch Dagblad
 

bluto

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The case with case number 201301173/1 is Friday, February 15th at 9:00 pm on a trial handled by the state councils Drupsteen, Koeman and Verheij. The hearing will take place in the building of the Council of State to the Kneuterdijk 22 in The Hague. Having regard to the Act on Financial Supervision certain period, the Council of State no later than Monday, February 25 shaft ruling.
Lid profiel van Mr. Th.G. Drupsteen bekeken.
Lid profiel van Mr. N.S.J. Koeman bekeken.
Lid profiel van Mr. N. Verheij bekeken.
 

Cat XL

Shizuka Minamoto
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Anche questi incazzati..

Leggetevi il pezzo del discount rate. Comincio a dare ragione al caro Zorba. Siamo stati rapinati.
 

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bluto

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State does not cover risks

Investors may not require the State to require that their risks covers. Argues that the State Attorney for the State Council in The Hague.

"Who invests knows he takes risks," said Eric Daalder of country lawyer Pels Rijcken & Drooglever Fortuijn. "And he knows that many times banks have gone bankrupt."

Today, investors in the Council of State their express objections against the expropriation of their pieces in SNS. More than 700 investors filed an objection.

Outflow savings
According to the U.S. attorney wanted Dijsselbloem Minister of Finance actually not to expropriate the assets transferred. "He has to avoid, but he has no other possibility."

Daalder points to the large outflow of savings, up to 123 million per day. "In mid-February the greenhouse would have been empty."

SNS was two weeks ago nationalized, whereby shareholders and holders of subordinated loans money lost. Subordinated loans are loans with a high risk, where a high rate compensation.
'Staat dekt geen risico's af' - NOS Nieuws
 

bluto

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Country Lawyer: no alternative SNS

The government could only intervene at SNS. That is the core of the defense that the State Attorney today keeps track of the Council of State. The Board deals with appeals against the nationalization of SNS are presented.

About seven hundred parties have objected. They lost all their money lost, because their investment after the nationalization nothing worth. Besides the Association of Stockholders that instance the FNV and many smaller parties, including the College of church stewards of the Reformed Churches in Kampen and Eefde.

No appeal
Interestingly, the biggest victim, the Stichting Beheer SNS, not to appeal against the decision of the Minister. The Foundation was the largest shareholder and lost about 1.1 billion euros.

The core of all the objections that Dijsselbloem Minister acted hastily. He has not been sufficiently investigated alternatives to nationalization. And because he forced the bank to a sharp depreciation of the real estate he made a private solution impossible. The bank had more time should be given to alternatives.

"Immediate danger '
In an extensive defense of more than a hundred pages explains country lawyer Eric Daalder these objections aside. According to Daalder, there was a "serious and immediate danger". The bank was on the verge of collapse and that would lead to turmoil in the financial sector lead.

The bank was long the "infusion of the European Central Bank", other banks wanted SNS not borrow more money and privately took his money away. Rapidly, because it was within two weeks already 2.5 billion recorded and if so would the bank would continue on 18 February 2013 by all her money went.

"There was all this talk of clear signs of an impending bank run, if not the beginning of a bank run," Daalder said in his defense.

Role Almunia
According to Minister Dijsselbloem there was no alternative to nationalization. The defense of the State Advocate shows that European Commissioner Almunia himself objected to the creation of a "bad bank" in which the three largest Dutch banks would participate. "The decision has not been taken at official level, but after consultation with Commissioner Almunia."

Many parties believe that the Minister Dijsselbloem the bank should have given more time to search for an alternative. The investment by CVC suggested alternative would not be investigated. The valuation of the real estate owned by the bank would be far too low and therefore the loss of the real estate branch exaggerated.

Not interested
But according to Daalder, there was no alternative. Because there was State aid according to the valuation Brussels rules should be implemented and delivered this low valuation. That was the proposal of the consortium of CVC no serious alternative. And there was also no other party interested in the salvation of SNS.

The Board of SNS gets in the defense even harsh criticism. SNS was not able to maintain a controlled and responsible business, "SNS has not succeeded and by the serious financial problems that are the result thereof, the stability of the financial system in serious and imminent danger."
Landsadvocaat: geen alternatief SNS - NOS Nieuws
 

bluto

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Luca,
in rete trovo molte "notizie" circa l'intervento di oggi dell'avvocatura di stato, ma neanche una parola sulla difesa degli espropriati.

E' perchè la stampa è "sovietica" e quindi riporta solo una voce oppure l'intervento degli espropriati è previsto nei prossimi giorni?

Se era una sola udienza (e quindi il contraddittorio c'è stato oggi), sono molto molto molto preoccupato, così è un massacro

edit: vedo ora che hanno postato bloomberg, l'unico che riporta in parte le difese dei derubati. Le testate olandesi riportano solo la voce del padrone. Ma sappiamo tutti che bloomberg lo leggono solo gli operatori...
 
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