CIT Group, SLM, GMAC e le finanziarie USA che (forse) si salveranno diventando banche

Imark · 13-10-2009, 17:20

Citazione:

Originalmente inviato da lorixnt2

In effetti sbircio questo thread da quando avevo scambiato CIT per CITI

.
Mi era parso che, qualora avessero dovuto seguire la sorte di Lehman, si sarebbe trattato di un fatto più interno agli USA ma poi, guardando le international locations, anche questi sembrano sparpagliati un po' dappertutto.

Quanto varrebbe un loro default rispetto ai 600 billions di Lehman?

Molto meno: sarebbe pur sempre il quinto maggior default USA, dopo GM, ma, se ben ricordo, siamo ad una sessantina di miliardi di $ di debito, cosa più, cosa meno...

Imark · 13-10-2009, 18:31

Le difficoltà che sarebbero emerse nel secondo debt swap promosso da CIT, secondo le informazioni assunte da Reuters. L'offerta scade il 29 ottobre.

I soldi di Uncle Sam dati sotto il TARP rischiano di fare una brutta fine in caso di default...

CIT debt swap struggles, bankruptcy looms

Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:12pm EDT

By Dan Wilchins and Paritosh Bansal

NEW YORK (Reuters) - CIT Group Inc (CIT.N) is seeing little interest from bondholders in a debt exchange offer aimed at repairing its fragile balance sheet, making bankruptcy increasingly likely, sources familiar with the matter said.

The lender to small and medium-sized businesses said earlier this month it was looking for investors to approve a large debt exchange that would reduce its borrowings, or to approve a prepackaged bankruptcy.

CIT is now more likely to try a prepackaged bankruptcy, two people familiar with the matter said. They declined to be identified because the exchange offer is ongoing and information about its progress is private.

But separately, investors in CIT securities said it is possible the company will not find enough debtholder approval for a prepackaged bankruptcy, which requires sufficient support before the company files for protection from creditors. Instead, CIT might have to aim for a prenegotiated bankruptcy, which typically has less support before the actual filing.
CIT spokesman Curt Ritter declined to comment.

CIT has limited time to work out its debt difficulties.

It has about $3 billion of debt to repay in the fourth quarter, including both secured and unsecured obligations, according to a CIT quarterly filing with regulators.

CIT has lost access to unsecured debt markets, but has billions to refinance in coming years. In three of the next four years, it will have more debt to repay than cash to pay it back. CIT has roughly 1 million customers and more than $70 billion of assets, but many of its borrowers are struggling amid the worst recession since the Great Depression.

The company's debt exchange aims to reduce CIT's borrowings by at least $5.7 billion, with specific targets for lowering the company's liabilities through 2012. The exchange offer expires on October 29.

AT LEAST TWO WANT MORE

At least two groups of investors are pushing for better terms in a bankruptcy than those suggested by the company earlier this month, one of the sources and investors said.

A subordinated debt holder said last week he was hoping to press for either more equity, or for a promise from the company to pay extra money to current subordinated debt holders if the company's assets perform well enough.

Separately, investors holding debt that funded CIT business in Canada are pushing for greater consideration in any bankruptcy plan, too. These investors are entitled to recover money from Canadian assets and the parent company in the United States and could therefore get close to 100 cents on the dollar in any bankruptcy.

One investor that would take a hit in a CIT bankruptcy is the U.S. government. The United States' Troubled Asset Relief Program invested $2.3 billion in CIT in December and much or all of that could be lost if the company files for bankruptcy, analysts said.

But many debt investors are likely to end up with much more than zero if CIT files for bankruptcy. One group of bondholders lent $3 billion to the company in July. That loan is collateralized by an estimated $30 billion of assets, which would ensure that the July loan could likely be paid back in full.

(Reporting by Dan Wilchins and Paritosh Bansal; editing by Richard Chang and Andre Grenon)

TheLondoner · 13-10-2009, 22:08

da qualche parte tempo addietro (se trovo posto il link) lessi che ...udite udite ...anche Goldman S.è invischiata in CIT... se salta quest'ultima.

Notizia o rumor non ricordo bene ...ma se cominciano a venire al pettine i nodi delle finanziarie potrebbero ritornare i vuoti d'aria sui mercati...

LINK

The Beast · 14-10-2009, 16:34

Citazione:

Originalmente inviato da TheLondoner

da qualche parte tempo addietro (se trovo posto il link) lessi che ...udite udite ...anche Goldman S.è invischiata in CIT... se salta quest'ultima.

Notizia o rumor non ricordo bene ...ma se cominciano a venire al pettine i nodi delle finanziarie potrebbero ritornare i vuoti d'aria sui mercati...

LINK

...che ci siamo rotti di aspettare lo stornone e di sti rendimenti ridicoli senza escludere gli occhiali rosa dell'azionario!

Imark · 14-10-2009, 16:35

Citazione:

Originalmente inviato da The Beast

...che ci siamo rotti di aspettare lo stornone e di sti rendimenti ridicoli senza escludere gli occhiali rosa dell'azionario!

Hanno fatto di tutto perché i mercati si riprendessero, almeno temporaneamente... sarebbe stato altrimenti impossibile mettere in salvo le banche...

The Beast · 14-10-2009, 16:37

Cmq ora CIT fa +14%

mah

Imark · 14-10-2009, 16:38

Citazione:

Originalmente inviato da The Beast

Cmq ora CIT fa +14%

mah

Vabbé, anche Gm ai bei tempi ne ha fatti di su e giù...

The Beast · 14-10-2009, 16:40

Ma infatti è fastidioso come si perdono di vista certi aspetti strutturali quando si vuole far salire tutto e tutti!

Imark · 19-10-2009, 16:11

Citazione:

Originalmente inviato da i98mark

Le difficoltà che sarebbero emerse nel secondo debt swap promosso da CIT, secondo le informazioni assunte da Reuters. L'offerta scade il 29 ottobre.

I soldi di Uncle Sam dati sotto il TARP rischiano di fare una brutta fine in caso di default...

CIT debt swap struggles, bankruptcy looms

Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:12pm EDT

By Dan Wilchins and Paritosh Bansal

...

CIT ha migliorato l'offerta in scadenza al 29 nel tentativo di rendere più accettabile per i bondholders. Contestualmente all'offerta per lo swap, ha chiesto ai bh di approvare una bancarotta prepackaged in caso dovesse andare in CH11, circostanza questa che non esclude di dover affrontare neanche in caso dovesse avere successo lo scambio proposto sul debito...

Chissà se i mercati se ne fregheranno o se la prenderanno in considerazione per avviare uno storno... più probabile la prima, IMHO...

Investor Icahn offers CIT Group $6 billion loan - Yahoo! Finance

mago gambamerlo · 26-10-2009, 01:23

Ho un amico a NY che si finanzia(iava) l' azienda tramite CIT e speriamo in bene ...

Citazione:

Originalmente inviato da i98mark

CIT ha migliorato l'offerta in scadenza al 29 nel tentativo di rendere più accettabile per i bondholders. Contestualmente all'offerta per lo swap, ha chiesto ai bh di approvare una bancarotta prepackaged in caso dovesse andare in CH11, circostanza questa che non esclude di dover affrontare neanche in caso dovesse avere successo lo scambio proposto sul debito...

Chissà se i mercati se ne fregheranno o se la prenderanno in considerazione per avviare uno storno... più probabile la prima, IMHO...

Investor Icahn offers CIT Group $6 billion loan - Yahoo! Finance

14-10-2009, 16:37	#126 (permalink)
The Beast Rating? No grazie! Data registrazione: Jan 2009 Località: Bologna Messaggi: 949	Cmq ora CIT fa +14% mah __________________ *THE BEAST: BONDISTA BRADIPO*

14-10-2009, 16:40	#128 (permalink)
The Beast Rating? No grazie! Data registrazione: Jan 2009 Località: Bologna Messaggi: 949	Ma infatti è fastidioso come si perdono di vista certi aspetti strutturali quando si vuole far salire tutto e tutti! __________________ *THE BEAST: BONDISTA BRADIPO*

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13-10-2009, 18:31	#122 (permalink)
Imark Salvor Hardin's fan Data registrazione: Oct 2006 Messaggi: 11,340	Le difficoltà che sarebbero emerse nel secondo debt swap promosso da CIT, secondo le informazioni assunte da Reuters. L'offerta scade il 29 ottobre. I soldi di Uncle Sam dati sotto il TARP rischiano di fare una brutta fine in caso di default... CIT debt swap struggles, bankruptcy looms Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:12pm EDT By Dan Wilchins and Paritosh Bansal NEW YORK (Reuters) - CIT Group Inc (CIT.N) is seeing little interest from bondholders in a debt exchange offer aimed at repairing its fragile balance sheet, making bankruptcy increasingly likely, sources familiar with the matter said. The lender to small and medium-sized businesses said earlier this month it was looking for investors to approve a large debt exchange that would reduce its borrowings, or to approve a prepackaged bankruptcy. CIT is now more likely to try a prepackaged bankruptcy, two people familiar with the matter said. They declined to be identified because the exchange offer is ongoing and information about its progress is private. But separately, investors in CIT securities said it is possible the company will not find enough debtholder approval for a prepackaged bankruptcy, which requires sufficient support before the company files for protection from creditors. Instead, CIT might have to aim for a prenegotiated bankruptcy, which typically has less support before the actual filing. CIT spokesman Curt Ritter declined to comment. CIT has limited time to work out its debt difficulties. It has about $3 billion of debt to repay in the fourth quarter, including both secured and unsecured obligations, according to a CIT quarterly filing with regulators. CIT has lost access to unsecured debt markets, but has billions to refinance in coming years. In three of the next four years, it will have more debt to repay than cash to pay it back. CIT has roughly 1 million customers and more than $70 billion of assets, but many of its borrowers are struggling amid the worst recession since the Great Depression. The company's debt exchange aims to reduce CIT's borrowings by at least $5.7 billion, with specific targets for lowering the company's liabilities through 2012. The exchange offer expires on October 29. AT LEAST TWO WANT MORE At least two groups of investors are pushing for better terms in a bankruptcy than those suggested by the company earlier this month, one of the sources and investors said. A subordinated debt holder said last week he was hoping to press for either more equity, or for a promise from the company to pay extra money to current subordinated debt holders if the company's assets perform well enough. Separately, investors holding debt that funded CIT business in Canada are pushing for greater consideration in any bankruptcy plan, too. These investors are entitled to recover money from Canadian assets and the parent company in the United States and could therefore get close to 100 cents on the dollar in any bankruptcy. One investor that would take a hit in a CIT bankruptcy is the U.S. government. The United States' Troubled Asset Relief Program invested $2.3 billion in CIT in December and much or all of that could be lost if the company files for bankruptcy, analysts said. But many debt investors are likely to end up with much more than zero if CIT files for bankruptcy. One group of bondholders lent $3 billion to the company in July. That loan is collateralized by an estimated $30 billion of assets, which would ensure that the July loan could likely be paid back in full. (Reporting by Dan Wilchins and Paritosh Bansal; editing by Richard Chang and Andre Grenon)

13-10-2009, 22:08	#123 (permalink)
TheLondoner Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum Data registrazione: Dec 2008 Messaggi: 563	da qualche parte tempo addietro (se trovo posto il link) lessi che ...udite udite ...anche Goldman S.è invischiata in CIT... se salta quest'ultima. Notizia o rumor non ricordo bene ...ma se cominciano a venire al pettine i nodi delle finanziarie potrebbero ritornare i vuoti d'aria sui mercati... LINK

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